Toxic people on social media: A theory
Thesis: In a personal dispute, the one who takes to social media most eagerly to plead their case is the one at fault.
The initial list of aggravating circumstances was too general, so I added many more bullet points and some explanation on 5/22/20.
Aggravating circumstances:
- Being the first to go public
- Embarking on a sustained campaign, rather than a short-term release of information
- Sustaining the campaign even though the other person does not respond publicly
- Using multiple channels: personal social media, your own YouTube channel, guest appearances on other people’s YouTube channels, GoFundMe, petitions at Change.org and other public sites
- Attempting to get the interest of journalists and news stations, but without success (outside of niche outlets)
- At least one court case against the other person in which the louder person is doing poorly, or has lost
- Ignoring a court gag order to continue releasing information
- Releasing the other person’s personal information
- Even though the other person has not released any of the first person’s personal information
- Breadth of desired audience: friends, family, and other people in direct contact vs. EVERYONE MUST HEAR ME
- Requesting that others take action against their opponent
No single circumstance is enough to tag someone as being at fault. It’s a pattern of behaviors.
Some of these behaviors are standard abuser territory: Being the first to go public, releasing the other person’s personal information, breadth of desired audience is friends, family, and other people in direct contact, sustaining the campaign even though the other person doesn’t respond openly.
Past a certain threshold, the red flags accrue faster and faster. The person wants a broader audience, often national or global, so they seek out like-minded people to help them boost the signal. They spread their message across as many social media channels as they can reach, and they attempt (unsuccessfully) to get the media involved. Often their lives become consumed by their campaign. If they haven’t already been hauled into court, they’re likely to find themselves there now. With little left to lose, they’re likely to defy gag orders, no-trespass orders, and even terms of probation to pursue their campaign. It’s an extreme, but an instructive one.
Exclusions:
- Public accusations against politicians and other public figures
- Reality TV stars and other people who make a living by stirring drama
Discuss?
Why do you ask, Issendai?
Because I’ve been dealing with pandemic cabin fever by digging deeper into custody disputes that turn into legal cases, and there are… patterns. Themes.
Have you considered entertaining yourself in ways that are a little less schadenfreude-ridden and stalkery?
I became a fan of The Magnus Archives, a horror podcast that’s amazing and dark and very queer, and there’s an entity called the Lonely that pokes at some of my deepest fears about the way I live my own life and relate to others–
Um…
…and there’s also a hot Gothy occultist named Gerard Keay.
I’m worried for your mental health.
So am I, narrator voice. So am I.
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I’m not sure this is true. Back when I went no contact, I published a series of blog-type post on Facebook about what led to the estrangement with my parents. The purpose was simply speak and be heard about things that was in the dark my entire life. Maybe a part was attention-seeking, but that was tangentially related. Unrelated, I also discuss politics on a dedicated forum, and while it can get testy, you can find the toxic folks quite easily, and they use the same tactics you’ve written about previously. Then you have the compulsive people who seek validation from the toxic people (which is where I fall in).
I think your theory is too broad, and ignores the variety of nuances different personalities have that contribute to bad conversations.
On another note, I read down a rabbit hole every few months. It’s such a great series.
This might boil down to perception managment. People on forum boards on how to deal with toxic people routinely describe to which lengths these individuals go to manage their public perception. Yet many victims of abuse and mistreatment often share nothing or very little with their surroundings out of shame, fear, a sense of discretion and sometimes feeling that it would be morally wrong to tell uninvolved parties.
The process referred to as “recruiting flying monkeys” often seems to be running to everyone who will listen and telling them their version of events. A few of these will take matters into their own hands, sometimes without any direct instructions from the tp, although more active recruiting methods can be applied. Gaslighting has a similar component, in that it is often perception management directly to the wronged party. It is interesting that perpetrators continue to do so even if the victim is 100% certain on the events.
While perception management is a basic survival strategy for people with highly difficult personalities, it seems to go deeper than a means to an end. Sometimes even life choices like career path and family planning are based around it. Many continue to keep up a lie even if there is clear counterevidence and lying doesn’t get any result. I get the impression that to them, public perception is not only more important than truth, it is their truth.
Yet I doubt that it is as easy as:
Toxic person = perception management via social media = always wrong
What if it’s two toxic people? Will a toxic person who just happens to be in the right by chance not turn to social media? Are there legitimate cases where someone sees no other chance to get justice but through publicity? Callouts to public figures aside, are there cases between private figures where this is ever justified?
I know some Australian cases that support your thesis, this one par excellence:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/FamCA/2016/796.html?context=1;query=2016%20FamCA%20345%20or%20FamCA%202016%20345;mask_path=
I can think of some cases where the protective parent did the name-and-shame on social media otoh…
But come to think of it, they were control-freaky child abuse/ misdemeanour battery centred around *HAIR*. Perhaps there is an inherent publicity involved with something so visible as hair? Like, it makes private cruelty public, which is a escalation for the abused, and for collaterals, i.e. people will presume that the parent they see out and about with the child is responsible.
I would be tempted to pre-empt that.
Anyway, the cases are Bella/mother Fernanda Taysa, Brazil and Kelsey Frederick, Ohio.
(The second case ended in a sole custody ruling excluding the named-and-shamed shearing couple.)
I’d also add, this may be less accurate in repeated cases (where the repetition isn’t itself indicative of toxicity, which can be hard to judge without multiple incidents).
Some people find themselves up against an in-person whisper network of great reach, and don’t have access to one themselves. So what they’re putting on social media may actually be 1/10 of what the other person in passing around in backchannels.
Someone who has had experience of a prior conflict where the other person went public in a big way and it worked out for them, or whose job exposes them to repeated attacks (see: female-presenting people in tech) are inevitably going to learn at least the rudiments of reputation management without trying, and many of them do in fact try. They may be going on the attack because they’ve concluded that keeping quiet will hurt them.
Or because they are just so bloody sick of this particular BS that the fifth person to try it catches the full wrecking ball.
Because it’s true that the person who is trying to be quiet, sensible, fair, and reasonable and who is self-doubting and not willing to go on the attack is quite likely to be the person with the most right on their side, but that’s maybe partly because that’s a common trauma response, and not necessarily helpful to them. To make things more difficult I don’t know any completely reliable way to distinguish normal reasonableness from the behaviour of someone who has been thoroughly gaslighted (gaslit?) without reference to objective data from outside. Sometimes you can see them minimizing behaviour that is appalling, in much the same way that the perpetrator does but reversed, and sometimes you really can’t.
I think a useful thing to look for may be whether someone’s use of social media emphasizes “this is what I did/what happened” or “this is what they’re like”. Are they detailed? Do they pull receipts in a measured sort of way, including those where their own behaviour wasn’t ideal? Are they mainly focussed on retrieving their own reputation or wrecking the other person’s?
It seems to me this is in line with that personality type who operates on “winning” the current argument, rather than resolving an issue long-term or salvaging a relationship.
Often, but not always. Innocent people who are victims of smear campaigns sometimes make the mistake of trying to defend themselves online. It rarely ends well.
I know a few never-my-fault types who have a weird way of communicating and pushing their propaganda through memes (commemecation?):
“You know your friends are fake when…”.
“Jealousy is a disease.”
“Authentic people forgive.”
“When you know the real story, but you keep your mouth shut anyway.”
Are you talking about the phenomenon where if the person accused of the bad thing fails to address the accusation, they must be guilty because “they’re not even trying to deny it,” but if they try to defend themselves, they must also be guilty because “denying it is exactly what a guilty person would do”? I’ve seen that one.
The other never-my-fault vague-posting trend I see is framing all personal conflict in terms of the other person being toxic. Of course toxic people exist, but when someone uses the word to describe EVERYONE they’ve ever disliked, I raise an eyebrow.
Yes, that’s it, a no-win situation, and then the victim’s called “psycho” or told that they have “issues”.
The meme thing is like the toxic thing, it’s how much a person does it.
Are you following the Gaiman/Palmer Patreon story?
I wonder how much of what you’re describing is simply the distaste people feel towards *anyone* who goes public with ‘dirty laundry.’ I’m sure I’m not the only one of your readers who got more flak for going public with even small amounts of the abuse I experienced, than the abusers got for having been abusive. Are you sure you’re disentangling those responses for yourself when you’re reading these stories? It doesn’t sound that different, on the face, from the knee-jerk backlash rape victims get when they go public with accusations in the press.
No, I wasn’t, but I looked it up and… yeesh. Announcing your impending divorce on a public forum without first informing your future ex is a MASSIVE red flag.
What I’m talking about isn’t simply going public with dirty laundry. It’s doing so in a sustained manner, often without any public response from the other party, sometimes in the face of a private response from the other party (for example, the two of you are in court but you decide to fight it out in public as well; bonus points for defying a court gag order). I’m trying to put my finger on what else separates it from, say, a rape accusation. The situations feel very different to me, but you’re right, on paper they look the same.
Hm.
A good few years ago, I had to end a working partnership. The person I was working with (let’s call her WP) turned out to be highly unethical at best and a con artist at worst. I made a few public comments concerning this matter, but no more than I had to (other people were negatively affected by or at risk of being affected by WP’s behaviour). I had some evidence to show she’d been doing things she really shouldn’t have been doing, but due to the nature of the situation, it would have been difficult to take legal action. WP’s response was vicious and sustained.
WP engaged in a full on smear campaign for more than a year with the help of flying monkeys. She made lengthy public posts, making it very clear she was the victim. This then progressed to a “I’m a strong and independant woman” kind of defiance. Her persecutor (me) was not going to stop her from helping others and doing what she wanted to do. WP made it known that she thought my work was s***, but unsurprisingly, her work was amazing and going to be even bigger and better. I dealt with this in a number of different ways: collecting evidence; for the best part, not responding or defending myself; advising others not to engage with this person; blocking WP and her flying monkeys; working hard to get things back-on-track.
At the beginning and during the smear campaign, WP started to:
– Publicly apologize for my disgraceful behaviour and the upset I had caused.
– Started ‘accidently’ sending me emails via my personal account (work account already blocked). These were examples of her amazing work that her clients had been requesting. None of this was relevant to me – like sending a florist examples of fancy baking to show what a successful florist you are.
– Kept insisting I’d given her permission to do the things she shouldn’t have been doing. Evidence showed otherwise. It got so bad that I thought I might have a doppelgänger, another me who’d been agreeing with everything WP said.
– Privately and publicly defending herself against non-slanderous/libellous comments. Threatening me with legal action for slander and libel because I’d said something about myself that she’d decided reflected badly on her. Example: Amy doesn’t steal chocolate = Lisa does steal chocolate.
Ultimately, WP couldn’t do anything. From my end, everything had been done by-the-book, and her repeated threats of legal action against me were nothing but empty noise. People started to question the posts she’d made, and as a result, they were eventually deleted. Her posts just didn’t add up and the bigger and better she promised never came. She didn’t even do the bare minimum.
“Privately and publicly defending herself against non-slanderous/libellous comments. ”
Correction: “Privately and publicly defending herself against non-existent and non-slanderous/libellous comments.” WP had been ‘informed’ that I’d been spreading malicious lies, but she never clearly stated what these lies were.
Addition: WP kept stating that everything she’d done, she’d done for me. Keep in mind that this was a working partnership. It made me feel very uncomfortable – creepy and ‘Norman Batesy’.
Feels like their are bits of the Drama Triangle, where someone tries to frame an issue as Persecutor vs Victim, and they are hoping the public will become the Rescuer, and a bit of gaslighting, where they try to convince the world of their innocence before the public/community even find out what they did.
I think there are a few exceptions to this especially when it comes to racism and BLM, and taking public video is a legitimate form of defense. A lot of the people recording and posting Facebook and going to the media are not the ones causing the issue. Amy Cooper who placed false calls to the police on video against a black member of the Audubon society in Central Park come to mind. It’s pretty clear from the lawsuits, videos and 911 calls that Amy’s racist and she’s the problem.
Not really a comment on this article, but I’m estranged from my abusive mother and I re-read the missing missing reasons every few months.
It gave me a lot of insight and strength to protect myself and my kids from my Mom. I post the link all the time and I appreciate what you did by posting it. Thank you.
I have to strongly disagree with this Specific hypothesis. After my siblings and I cut contact with our father in response to multiple, separate incidents of (towards me) emotional abuse and (towards siblings (violence), my extended family continued to pressure us to reach out to him, to make amends, etc., because he had been lying to them and claiming that he never did anything wrong and we never told him why we were mad and he had no idea how to fix things.
I had a recording of the last voicemail he had sent me in which he viciously insulted my then girlfriend and called her a whore *literally because I slept in on a Saturday morning and didn’t answer his unexpected calls*. I posted the transcript on Facebook, tagged family, and captioned it “please stop asking us to reach out to him, we told him he needs to stop doing stuff like this for us to have a relationship”.
The larger spirit of the hypothesis may be valid, since he definitely made the initial, extended social campaign, but our family very much had a theme of “we don’t talk about drama except behind closed doors”, so no one was ever going to post on social media.
Sorry for stumbling into this long after it was posted, however I would be intrigued to read your deep dives into custody cases. Is there a link you could share?